Waxy.org
Waxy.org is the sandbox of Andy Baio, a writer and tech entrepreneur in Portland, OR. I work with Expert Labs, helped build Kickstarter, founded Upcoming, made an album, and other stuff too.

Contact Me: Email, AOL IM, or follow me on Twitter.

Cannibalism on the Web

Posted Dec 4, 2003

Armin Meiwes, a computer technician in central Germany, liked to meet other men online. But instead of using Match.com or Friendster, he posted his personal ads on sites like "Cannibal Cafe," "Guy Cannibals" and "Torturenet." And instead of dinner and a movie, he preferred to slaughter and eat his dates.

Unlike other cannibals, Meiwes used the Internet to meet his (very willing) victims. So I went looking for his original message board postings, but the three sites he mentioned in his testimony have shut down in the year since his arrest. He also posted messages to a Usenet group called alt.sex.snuff.cannibalism, where several of his posts are archived by Google Groups.

The newsgroup, like many others, is so overwhelmed with spam that the active users started prefixing their posts with "ASSC" to separate out the noise. If you look around, you'll find an active community of cannibal fetishists, with their own forms of fan fiction, creative writing, poetry, and the occasional "stab" at humor. Compared to this kind of creative output, Armin Meiwes' posts are downright dull.

December 18, 2003: PETA is trying to convert him to vegetarianism.

34 Comments (Add Yours)

Dec 4, 2003
1:20 PM  
ryan wrote:

This usenet post is far from downright dull: i butchering you and eat your horny flesh.

This might be the most disturbing thing I have read this year. Something about those posts combined with the quotes and Yahoo photos (note his teeth) really give me chills. But the question that's got me wondering: is it ethical to eat someone if they give permission?


Dec 4, 2003
1:26 PM  
Jack wrote:

I really can't imagine any circumstance where eating someone is ethical, I guess the real question right now is if it is criminal.


Dec 4, 2003
1:43 PM  
david wrote:

i have to agree with ryan: this might be the most disturbing thing i've read this year. *shudder*


Dec 4, 2003
1:52 PM  
ryan wrote:

Why is eating another human being unethical by default? Clearly, killing a fellow is both unethical and criminal, but the attitudes toward cannibalism seem to vary. I recommend taking a look at Rachel Bell's article on cannibalism, which explores the history, psychology, and sexualization of this effed up phenomenon. It touches upon ethics only within the context of survival - the Donner party, Alive, etc. And it seems that cannibalism may be Mom's fault:

This theory is further supported by a study on cross-cultural cannibalism conducted by Eli Sagan. According to Sanday's book Divine Hunger, Sagan argues that cannibalism is a "psychological response to anger and frustration" expressed through oral aggression and an urge to literally absorb a person through consumption. Sagan states that this urge can be directed at an enemy who may threaten the strength of the individual.

Sagan believes that children who are excessively dependent on their mothers, due to maternal over nurturing, are more likely to experience oral aggression and frustration due to separation. Moreover, he contends that the adult who subconsciously carries this oral aggression is likely to express it in an overtly dominant fashion against women by turning to cannibalism.

Dec 4, 2003
1:56 PM  
jkottke wrote:

I really can't imagine any circumstance where eating someone is ethical

It's not that hard to imagine. The Donner party and the rugby players in the Andes come to mind. Unimaginable unless you're actually in that type of situation, but not unilaterally unethical. Some human societies routinely ate human flesh because it was the only significant source of protein to be found in their environment (no cows or pigs in New Guinea). Killing people, raising humans for livestock, or selling human meat...that's where the ethics would come into play.

And I'll stop there because as Ryan said, this gives me the willies.


Dec 4, 2003
2:44 PM  
Greg Knauss wrote:

You want to talk chilling: I keep getting Erma Bombeck sponsored links on the page with the filk about eating people. That's a dimension to her work I'd never noticed before.


Dec 4, 2003
7:39 PM  
you wrote:

obvioulsy, canibalism for him is totally different than eating normal animal meat. "It was like taking communion."
in that sense, i guess it could default as being unethical in this case.


Dec 5, 2003
6:20 AM  
roXet wrote:

wow, I think I need a shower after reading that fan fiction. I can't believe I made it all the way through it #1 because I have a natural aversion to fan fiction of any sort and #2 that was the creepiest thing I've ever read.


Dec 5, 2003
11:30 AM  
Lugeman wrote:

That is one of the most disturbing things I have ever read. Where do you find these things?


Dec 8, 2003
10:58 AM  
thandi wrote:

I'm too freaked out to read the fan fiction. But I think it's generally agreed that cannibalism is unethical except in extreme conditions, like the soccer players in the Andes and the Donner party. And I thought they only ate their dead comrades. Am I right? I don't think they killed each other expressly for food.


Dec 14, 2003
3:02 PM  
bob wrote:

I can't believe this guy actually found someone that had always wanted to be brutally slaughtered and eaten. I don't know who's more sick really. I'm sitting here eating a salad and i just paused for a second and shuddered. yuck.


Dec 19, 2003
8:40 AM  
Lugeman wrote:

Vegetarianism is just as evil. Give peas a chance!


Dec 27, 2003
1:25 PM  
Marijuana Blog wrote:

Eating someone is ethical when it's necessary for survival. Take for instance, being stranded with no food in freezing cold.


Dec 29, 2003
11:22 AM  
Some Guy wrote:

and the premise for a really good movie.


Jan 1, 2004
4:18 PM  
TPS wrote:

yuck i feel sick.....that is so gross


Jan 15, 2004
9:43 PM  
Radek wrote:

Dear Marijuana Blog,

You're an idiot. Were you high when you wrote that? Cannibalism is ok if its out of neccessity, fine. But this is fetish crap. Look, if I found it exciting to cut your balls off and feed them to my dog I think you'd be a little pissed. I also think that there might be something illegal about that, no? He wasn't eating for survival. He's just sick


Jan 16, 2004
6:26 AM  
marly wrote:

ok i know its not cool to eat someone else for pleasure but its what he wanted to do and the other guy was giving him permission to do it!
Obviosly its not funny and it is disgusting but what would you prefer him going out and randomly killing someone?


Jan 16, 2004
2:44 PM  
دین اسلام wrote:

How come his victims wanted to die, be killed like animals and be eaten?


Jan 23, 2004
10:14 AM  
Rob wrote:

No Comment.


Jan 23, 2004
5:10 PM  
chomping happily wrote:

you all have missed the boat. human flesh is great.,when prepared properly. most of the body is woprthless.ie, the breasts, pubic area. brains. by the way idaho is the only state where cannibalism is against the law. so get someone to do themselves in for you to eat them!!!


Feb 2, 2004
3:41 AM  
shakira wrote:

i think that eating another human being is wrong, yet we can eat animals and watch animals killing each other wihout any problems.


Feb 2, 2004
11:50 PM  
shakira wrote:

who thinks that eating another human being is wrong?


Feb 3, 2004
2:50 AM  
shakira wrote:

chomping happily r u a freakin weirdo? do u eat humans? i think that u r seriously weird and need some help mentally ASAP!!!!


Feb 8, 2004
5:47 AM  
Rohan wrote:

Obviously thise comment depnds on your definition of ethical but I for one cannot find a single thing morally wrong with Armin Meiwes other is not behaviour. Who exactly is affected by this act? Evidently the majority of us find it an extraordinary fetish that repulses us but we are talking about consenting humans. Both of the protagonists just got more pleasure out of it than they have experienced in their lives. I understand that people casually eating each other is not to be encouraged in a civilised society but I personally cannot find anything inherently evil in his actions. I would treat him with considerably more respect than a rapist. I think those who are quick to condemn other peoples abnormalities should behave a little more objectively.


Feb 12, 2004
8:28 AM  
shakira wrote:

Rohan i seriously thimk that u and armin meiwes need some serious help


Feb 12, 2004
1:46 PM  
Spark wrote:

What about Russia? in the Volga region, people killed their daughters to feed their sons at the start of the Bolshevik reign, and Lenin went mad because a bolshevik friend of his Chicherin had no chocolate! Where does the greater evil lie here? to be honest, the guy killed someone who consented, we're talking one guy died, you're all so disgusted, but where do you stand on drink-driving?!


Feb 13, 2004
12:26 AM  
shakira wrote:

I CAN SEE WHERE YOUR COMING FROM SPARK BUT CANNIBALSIM IS WRONG AND IN MY OPINION IMMORAL. DONT DRINK AND DRIVE SMOKE AND FLY.


Feb 15, 2004
2:33 PM  
Panda wrote:

"chomping happily r u a freakin weirdo? do u eat humans? i think that u r seriously weird and need some help mentally ASAP!!!!
posted by shakira on February 3, "

Haha, lets not abbreviate three letter words, darling. I think eating humans is perfectly acceptable, as long as we're doing it in a civilized way. That is, with a knife and fork and a little salt. Actually, I'm a vegitarian (damn those peas) and don't regularly indulge in cannibalism. However, even though I don't practice it myself, I say "don't knock it till you try it." The way I see it, one man wanted to start carving, and the other volunteered to be the turkey. Don't blame the eater for the eaten's death. It's like saying the cant shouldn't eat the canary even though its sitting on the plate and spreading butter on itself.


Feb 15, 2004
2:36 PM  
Panda wrote:

*Cat, excuse me.


Feb 16, 2004
2:52 AM  
shakira wrote:

panda: how is eating humans civilized? would u eat your own mother?


Feb 16, 2004
3:52 AM  
shakira wrote:

panda would u eat me with a bit of salt?


Feb 17, 2004
4:22 PM  
Panda wrote:

Probably not, you probably dont taste very good on account of how close minded and angry you are. Makes pleople all bitter tasting. My mother? no, i dont think so, but then she doesnt want to be eaten. if you had actually read what I wrote, maybe you would have caught that it was okay to eat someone who wanted to be eaten. it happens all the time babe. go take a walk outside, animals eat their young all the time. Polar bears, cats, fox, even those cute little mice in your pantry eat each other. Its a fact of life, and humans aren't above it either it seems. get off your high horse and grab your fork sweety, its supper time.


Feb 17, 2004
4:23 PM  
panda wrote:

once again, don't abbreviate three letter words, it makes you look a wee bit stupid, and even harder to listen to your inane comments.


Feb 17, 2004
4:25 PM  
Andy Baio wrote:

You people are retarded. I'm closing comments.


 
Waxy Links
Ads via The Deck
February 8, 2012
Double Fine's Kickstarter project to make a new point-and-click adventure — best project video ever; I backed it so hard
Interactive ASCII fluid dynamics animation — based on this JS simulation (via)
What Popular iPhone/Android Apps Know/Transmit About You — ignore the awful visualization and skip to the table; Angry Birds sends your contacts to third parties!?
Path apologizes, deletes user address books — they never should've done it in the first place, but this is the right way to handle it
BBC tracks down an Internet troll — as the Daily Dot points out, he's more of a racist asshole than a troll (via)
February 7, 2012
PressPausePlay — stylish documentary on the digital media revolution of the last decade
February 6, 2012
Restored Disneyland footage from 1957 — only open for two years in this video
Robot readable world — found footage from machine-vision tests
February 3, 2012
Avería, the average font — preview them all (via)
February 2, 2012
How and why Mark Jaquith became an atheist — gripping personal story of the life-affirming shift from faith to evidence (via)
Where's the Pixel? — find and click on the black pixel; you may need to clean your screen first (via)
ARTINFO on the chilling effect of the Prince v. Cariou copyright ruling — the journalist mentions me and Kind of Bloop
Darkness — a brilliant 24-hour comic by French cartoonist Boulet (via)
January 31, 2012
Nano quadrotors flying in formation — don't miss the figure 8 pattern at the end (via)
Bootstrap 2 released — here's the announcement
Jeff Atwood on the risks of unmoderated communities — left to their own devices, popular online communities get taken over by cheap, easy gags (via)
How and why J.D. Roth sold Get Rich Slowly — interesting tale of a founder selling his site, but unable to share the details for years
Yahoo lays off in-house Flickr support team — from what I hear, it was done with 10 minutes' notice to Flickr management
Mapstalgia — videogame maps drawn from memory
January 30, 2012
Shit Programmers Say — strikingly similar to Shit Rocks Say
Impressions of Corporate Logos by a 5-Year-Old — "a cheetah, a cheetah, a cheetah"
Bellbot — web app that beeps when you get new signups or sales
ScratchML — markup language for recording and replaying turntablism
Why are software development task estimations regularly off by a factor of 2-3? — nice piece of Quora fiction (via)
David Carr on Kickstarter's film funding at Sundance — 10% of the festival was funded on Kickstarter, with two optioned by HBO
Why ten-year attendee Mike Pusateri's skipping SXSW this year — I made the same decision to skip this year; I may regret it, but it just wasn't fun last year
MegaUpload's user data set to be destroyed by Friday — collateral damage in the copyright war
Blogging declines across the Inc. 500 — too bad; Twitter and Facebook aren't a replacement for longer-form communication
January 29, 2012
ChatChat — Terry Cavanagh's multiplayer game about being a cat (via)
January 27, 2012
Identifying Ice Cube's "Good Day" — process of elimination

Andy Baio lives here. Some rights reserved, for your pleasure.